sevenhelz: hand-drawn picture of a bluetit with its mouth open, "yell" written by the beak (Default)
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posted by [personal profile] sevenhelz at 08:29pm on 22/01/2012
Part of me thinks this doesn't or shouldn't need saying anymore, and certainly not so damned repeatedly, but here we are.

I keep having this conversation:

me: some kind of comment that is not 100% supportive of a person's choice of diet (usually because my views are too long to go into on first bite) or foolishly advises more activity and less restrictions, etc
them: How dare you call me stupid, I am intelligent and sensitive and in touch with my body and you Just Don't Understand!

...

You're right, I don't.

Here's where it gets me: if your size and shape is the kind of thing that's important to you, and you truly believe you can entirely control them through dieting and maybe a bit of exercise (because it's not like uncontrollable factors such as hormones and heritage play a part, after all)... if you truly believe that, how have you suddenly got to the point where you have to take drastic action?
Because I do understand that there are lots of reasons to care about your size and shape and how you're perceived. But I'm not seeing people who are just plodding along, eating healthily like they always do and maybe not getting to the gym quite as often as they'd like. I'm seeing people getting upset about gaining an inch here or there, or worse, Not Having Lost a pound or two.
What the hell?

...Putting that aside for now.

Eating healthily as a product of living in a fit and healthy body, that I understand. Looking good because you're healthy and strong, that's great. Feeling right in your body is wonderful (and everyone has the right to do that, even if they're fat).

Playing some kind of Goodies and Baddies numbers game like counting calories or checking your dress size, I don't get. Not least because those things are bullshit. BMI is bullshit. Note particularly point 3. Again, BMI is bullshit. Dress sizes aren't standard. Calories are a thing you need to have enough of to keep your body going and living and enjoying the things it does. Losing weight and even eating less is, in itself, a fucking stupid aim if you do stuff that works your muscles. Because muscle weighs more than fat, and the more muscle you have the more energy you use simply to exist, leading to those of us who are stronger being heavier and eating more than those who are weak and unfit. If you're ONLY aiming to lose weight, you're aiming to be weak. I don't get why you'd want that. Also, feeling right in your body is probably not going to come from restricting what you eat (relatedly, check out this excellent comic about having an eating disorder. I won't apologise for suggesting that this is the deep end of the pool you're swimming in). Not to mention how much has already been written about how diets don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, DON'T work. You tell your body it's starving, and then you give it food, what's it going to do? That's right, hold onto it in case you starve it again. Same goes for water, and plenty of people are working at a level of dehydration mild enough that they don't feel it, while you can see their stomachs hugging it to themselves in case of hard times. Poor stomachs. I realise this is a radical idea, but maybe we should give them what they want more of?

Partly the attitude seems to be that I have no cause to comment on other people's actions, because they are Better At Dieting than me. They probably are Better At Dieting than me; after all, I've never been on a Diet, to a given understanding of the term.

On the other hand, I spent three and a half years gluten-intolerant, I've spent months on a strict anti-thrush diet (no sugars, no refined carbohydrates ie white bread white rice oh yeah and all of that gluten-free pap), and now that I'm probably the fittest and strongest I've ever been, I eat a protein-rich, varied diet full of vegetables and carbs and cake and good things. I make sure I eat after exercising, not just because it's recommended, but because on the odd occasion I've not been able to, I've felt like crap afterwards. Oh, and just to remind you about how BMI is bullshit; because I have a lot of upper body strength (by most women's standards) my BMI fluctuates between normal and overweight. That's in the course of a month as my hormones take hold, and also in the course of days or weeks depending on how I'm eating and what I'm doing at the gym (I prefer strength work to cardio. All the boys who ever tell me that "women aren't attractive with too much muscle" can go fuck themselves).

I'm pretty sure that for me, the best way to be healthy and happy is to get more active. From spending ten minutes on my bedroom floor working whatever muscle group, to heading to the gym three times a weeks for boxing circuits and weight training, taking in dance classes, swimming, roller derby and everything in between, it is probably more productive and certainly a hell of a lot more fun to be more active than to stop yourself from eating things you like. I'm not recommending it for everybody because it's not proven to work for everybody. It's not even an option for everybody (I'm thinking of people with physical disabilities, who this post is generally not about). And yes, time can be an issue. And yet here you are, putting all of your spare thought into working out your diet. Quite possible spending energy and thinking time on working out how to get away with not eating at a party or night out with friends. Bleah.

Oh, go read the entire of Shapely Prose. And then maybe I don't have to type out a comment as long as this blog post just to be able to talk to you when you're in Diet Mode. And then maybe, just maybe, you can understand with this in the background that I'm not Against You and I *do* want you to look and feel good and be happy and in fact, if it will help, I will give you, my dear friend, a discount for lingerie that makes you look smoothly curvy. Seriously, tell me again how I Don't Understand.

I'm tired of expressing concern for people in a way that feeds into all of the above but, for whatever reason, often because I'm tired, apparently doesn't sound supportive enough. Somehow I'm not capable of not expressing concern. And somehow most of the people I start to talk to take my comments as not only meddling, but trying to tell them that they are Wrong or Stupid. Even if I'm asking a question. Well. Whatever. I'm done.
There are 14 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
katieastrophe: selfie photo of katie in krakow, poland - wearing a black coat, black tshirt, & red trousers, & smiling (Default)
posted by [personal profile] katieastrophe at 11:41pm on 22/01/2012
I got to the point where I had to take drastic action because my clothes didn't fit me anymore and when I weighed myself I discovered I was about 2st heavier than I thought. And I took the action because I could, because moving back to my mum's meant having money to eat quality food instead of Morrison's less-than-a-quid microwave meals.

I don't limit my calories or water intake, I just eat more sensible food than I used to, cook more healthily, cut out snacks and do more exercise. And it turns out, that shit does work, for some people, cos I'm 3 stone lighter than when I met you in the pub a week before I started doing this, not much more than four months ago. I'm losing a perfectly healthy 2lbs a week, give or take a few ounces.

And for every pound I've lost, I'm a little happier and more self-confident. I'm fitter, faster on my bike, and stronger. I still enjoy treats, and they taste even better cos they're rarer than they used to be.

I don't think this was *quite* directed at me but I just wanted to stick it out there that fad diets may not work but changing your lifestyle can do.
sevenhelz: hand-drawn picture of a bluetit with its mouth open, "yell" written by the beak (Default)
posted by [personal profile] sevenhelz at 12:25am on 23/01/2012
That doesn't strike me as drastic action. I've been talking to friends who are literally panicking over every inch and every pound. I find it weird. I mean, one of them's worried she won't fit into her wedding dress. Why not have it made a bit bigger? I know there's a fashion for tight clothes but really? Really??
miss_s_b: River Song and The Eleventh Doctor have each other's back (Default)
posted by [personal profile] miss_s_b at 12:54am on 23/01/2012
Possibly that's a WEDDING MUST BE PERFECT!!!!! thing, though...

But yeah, as to your general point, I don't get fad dieting either, and according to BMI I'm clinically obese, which is just bonkers (I use that term as someone who has been diagnosed with a mental illness)
miss_s_b: River Song and The Eleventh Doctor have each other's back (Default)
posted by [personal profile] miss_s_b at 03:35pm on 23/01/2012
I hadn't, but none of it comes as a surprise.
katieastrophe: selfie photo of katie in krakow, poland - wearing a black coat, black tshirt, & red trousers, & smiling (Default)
posted by [personal profile] katieastrophe at 10:26am on 23/01/2012
Yeah, I can see that. I mean, sometimes in the couple of hours before I get weighed each week I have a panic mode of "mustn't drink pints of water, must remember the wear the same kind of clothes I did last week so it doesn't change my weight, must do this..." and in some ways I can see that it might be a little disordered to say I'd be happy as long as I lost weight, whether half a pound or four pounds, but at the same time, I've done so well so far and I want to be wearing gorgeous dresses this summer, and next summer, and every summer after.

And I won't change my eating habits when I get there; in fact, I only have a numerical target because Slimming World insists on it - my actual goal is "to be able to eat the food I want to without either losing or gaining weight" - because right now, I'm happy with the type and quantity of food I'm putting into my body, and the weight is dropping off, so when I stop losing weight, my body is obviously happy too.
sevenhelz: hand-drawn picture of a bluetit with its mouth open, "yell" written by the beak (Default)
posted by [personal profile] sevenhelz at 11:42am on 23/01/2012
Upon reflection, I'm wondering whether it says more about the tone of my blog or about the conversations you've been having that you felt the need to defend the decision to eat healthily and exercise more. That's not the type of Dieting I'm discussing.

In your case, I'm glad that you're feeling happy and healthy, and I genuinely hope it stays that way. The conversations I'm frustrated with keep starting with people who have bought into the numbers games, calories and dress sizes and Losing Weight as if it were the holy grail, and while I try to be supportive of things that make my friends happy, I remain unconvinced that they are getting happier.

It's also worth noting that the links that say dieting doesn't work aren't talking about the short term - they're talking about how much weight is put back on over three to five years. I guess there are some people who may weigh the balance and decide that the short term loss is worth it, such as the bride-to-be. I'm not able to discuss that with her because she's too busy worrying about why she hasn't lost a pound this week.
hathycol: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] hathycol at 09:07pm on 23/01/2012
I wasn't going to comment on this, being as I was going to respect your opinion and step back on this and try and mull on my feelings on it and possibly comment in a week, but I went on a short-term and unhealthy capital D diet because I ate and drank my way through Christmas and suddenly BOOM it wasn't Christmas and my lovely dress which I have paid up front for which is already fitted around the waist wouldn't fit. The lacing detail - and yes, there we go, it is vanity - wouldn't stretch.

I am aware that my post on Friday was irrational. I am aware that this kind of thinking in unhealthy. But between work stress and wedding stress and some other things that I've currently chosen not to talk about on the internet I had to do something drastic and quickly.

And, er, actually I feel a bit better in myse
hathycol: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] hathycol at 09:12pm on 23/01/2012
ohgod I am so bad at typing these days, pressed reply too early there!

So, yes, what I was going to end with was:

'I feel a little better in myself now I'm through the fitting, and you and other people made good and helpful comments about exercise - I particularly liked your zumba suggestion, don't know why I've not tried it before - so I know that my weight will go up again, but hopefully I will continue to feel better in myself.

I'm generally not the type of person to go too insane over weight - no, really - and I have never done this sort of thing before, as what matters to me is feeling good in myself. Which, frankly, I wasn't.'
sevenhelz: hand-drawn picture of a bluetit with its mouth open, "yell" written by the beak (Default)
posted by [personal profile] sevenhelz at 11:28pm on 23/01/2012
Okay. I should probably apologise for being harsh. I know that I am sometimes, that I do that thing where something that isn't important to me obviously shouldn't be to other people, and I know it hurts the other way round and I'm sorry.
It's not even the dieting in itself that pisses me off, it's how touchy everybody is about it (knowing that the irrationality that comes with hunger feeds into that, too). I think I needed to work out for myself why I'm touchy about people being touchy. I hate to be misunderstood, but a lot of the time I'm not patient enough to properly explain myself - this post was intended as a handy link to refer back to, but maybe I should be working harder to say things that can't be misconstrued.

It's particularly hard to be rational talking to you because there was a long period where you blanked me, and I don't know why, and I don't know if we're ever going to get the kind of catch-up session that would make me feel entirely okay with that. You don't have to reply to this bit here and now; it just feeds into some other problems I've been having.

I really, geniunely hope the dress fits and that everything works out right and also (especially?) that you feel good, and find ways not to panic about this kind of thing.
x
sevenhelz: hand-drawn picture of a bluetit with its mouth open, "yell" written by the beak (Default)
posted by [personal profile] sevenhelz at 11:29pm on 23/01/2012
also, genuine offer of lingerie discounts if you haven't sorted your wedding undies yet.
can has cookie?(anonymous) [screened]
sevenhelz: hand-drawn picture of a bluetit with its mouth open, "yell" written by the beak (Default)
posted by [personal profile] sevenhelz at 11:48am on 23/01/2012
@mr_magicfingers:

I've never suggested that anyone jump into an intense exercise program. I'm well aware that getting more active has to be a gradual process, just as it did/does for me when I want to work on specific aspects of my fitness, and given that I started out slim but unhealthy.

I'm not convinced that all that many people in our culture have so little knowledge of nutrition, and giving a graduate who I happen to know is brighter than me a handy tool for simplifying data does not strike me as entirely useful. Perhaps I'm wrong! Maybe diet culture has changed so much that it is now a wonderful supportive way to simply be healthy!

Wait, no.
mr_magicfingers: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] mr_magicfingers at 07:12am on 23/01/2012
Posted an entry from phone when not logged in, you can probably tell which one it was. X
page64: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] page64 at 01:30pm on 23/01/2012
These last few months I've been making an effort to improve general fitness all-round. For me, this involved - realising that I'd rather jog somewhere than walk, going to the gym every now and then to work on strength and cardio, and maybe saying no to a pizza and yes to some chicken instead.

I've never looked at any kind of diet-plan or set a strict regime of exercise, and my weight or level of fitness haven't exactly been stable but I look better and I feel better and I can run further and lift more and I've never had to turn away from a piece of food that I've been absolutely dying for, be it cake or pie or chocolate.
Little changes to lifestyle definitely seem to hold the most benefit. I try to reconsider the things that I want, and what I enjoy (speaking specifically about food here), and moderate my intake whilst trying to be a bit more active and just have fun moving around.

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